编者按：时值中国共产党建党95周年之际，中央电视台英语新闻频道(CCTV NEWS)《对话》(Dialogue)栏目策划了题为“Founding of the CPC 95 years on”的特别节目。节目组先后在上海新天地中共一大会址和上海外国语大学进行取景拍摄，主持人杨锐还与上外师生用英语进行了深入对话。

在7月2日晚播出的第二集节目中，杨锐分别来到上外虹口校区和松江校区，与上外党委书记姜锋，就建党九十五周年与上外的办学使命与教育改革展开对话，并与部分上外学生代表进行探讨，共同讲述中国故事、上外故事。

Shanghai, an international business hub, with a rich colonial past, and yet, it is also a city full of red legend. Here, Chairman Mao Zedong and his colleagues hold the first Congress, marking the birth of the Communist Party of China. Here, the second National Congress of the CPC issued a declaration, China's revolution was a democratic revolution. Here, the CPC founded a new China's first ever foreign language university, now known as Shanghai International Studies University. Explore its red past, and its implications of the development of CPC and the whole country. DIALOGE is taking you on the journey in Shanghai.

上海是国际商业中心，虽然有过一段殖民历史，但是这座城市也充满红色传奇。毛泽东与其他党员同志在上海召开中共一大，标志着中国共产党的诞生。 中共二大在也上海召开并发表宣言，表明中国的革命是民主革命。 正是在上海，中国共产党建立了新中国成立以来**所外国语大学，即如今的上海外国语大学。探索上海的红色历史，探寻中国共产党以及中国发展的含义。《对话》节目将带您走进上海之旅。

【访谈双语摘译(一)】

杨锐 [Y] & 姜锋 [J]

[Y] On glancing at the founding history of Shanghai International Studies University, we immediately recognize that our school was called the Shanghai Russia School. Now how do you relate the history of SISU, Shanghai International Studies University to the development of China, because this is, after all, a process of China’s integration with the rest of the world?

杨锐：回顾上海外国语大学的校史，学校最早名为上海俄文学校。那您认为上外的办学历史与中国的发展有着怎样的关系呢?因为上外的发展历程正是中国融入世界进程的缩影。

[J] Actually, that is a very interesting observation. You see only two months after the establishment of the People’s Republic of China, the Shanghai Russian School was established. That is the predecessor of the Shanghai International Studies University. So at the very beginning of the new People’s Republic of China, it has a great international dimension. And the Communist Party attached great importance to the international issues. At the beginning, there are lots of Russian experts with expertise who come to China to help build the country. And there is a strong need for language assistance.

姜锋：的确，这个视角很有意思。新中国成立仅两个月后，上海俄文学校，也就是上海外国语大学的前身成立了。新中国成立伊始就已具有高度的国际视野，中国共产党也非常重视国际问题。建国初期，有很多苏联专家带着专业技术来到中国，帮助国家建设，因而亟需人才来提供语言支持。

[Y] In 1980s, I mean, that was compared to the period of China's enlightenment movement, books stores were inundated with western books of philosophy, history. What else could you mention of all those big names?

杨锐：甚至上世纪80年代都被比作中国的启蒙运动时期。书店里关于西方哲学和历史的书籍比比皆是。您可以列举出一些代表人物吗?

[J] For example. Schopenhauer, Kant, Hegel, and other philosophers. Existentialism, and the French, Camus, Sartre and so on. We have read a lot. They play even today a very important role in university life. And for example, Karl Marx.

姜锋：比如，叔本华、康德、黑格尔以及其他的哲学家;存在主义的哲学家，法国的加缪和萨特，等等，我们读了很多。甚至在今天，他们在中国的大学中还有着重要影响力。比如，卡尔·马克思。

[Y] Marxism came from the West. Leninism came from the West.

杨锐：马克思主义来自西方，列宁主义也同样来自西方。

[J] As we have discussed, the Communist Party of China is from very beginning very international. And many leading members of the Party had studied and lived in western worlds, especially in Europe. Also the founder of this university, Marshal Chen Yi, for example, studied in France. And the first Party Secretary of this university was also a very well-known scholar and party member for international politics. He himself was also translator. So you see, this Party, the Communist Party, in my understanding, is at the very beginning, already international.

姜锋：就像我刚刚讲的，中国共产党从一开始就非常国际化。而且许多党的领导人都在西方国家特别是欧洲学习生活过。例如，上外创始人之一陈毅元帅曾经留学法国;上外**任党委书记是国际政治领域的知名学者，同时也是一位翻译家。所以，在我看来，中国共产党自建党之初就已经很国际化了。

陈毅(左四)与姜椿芳(左一)和舒同(左三)在上海俄文学校主持校务会议(上外综合档案室存)

[Y] You served as the minister’s counselor in Germany as the representative of Ministry of Education for years. What kind of things we could learn or inspiration we can draw from the German way of education in terms of elites?

杨锐：您曾多年担任中国驻德国大使馆教育处公使衔参赞。那么我们从德国的精英教育中可以学到些什么，或者能够得到哪些启示呢?

[J] Elites are not those people who have lots of money, who have been educated, who have done excellent research or who have very outstanding social position or power. Elites, in my understanding, are those people who take more responsibility, not only for our own country, but also for the human beings, for the mankind. If we can learn something from Germany, for example, even in the field of vocational training, they are also elites. They are workers, qualified workers. And they do a lot of innovative work. And they make a great contribution to the development of industry and of the society.

姜锋：所谓精英，并非仅仅指那些拥有财富、受过教育、有出色研究成果，或拥有杰出社会地位和权力的人。在我看来，精英是那些勇于和能够肩负责任的人，不仅是自己国家的责任，还有全人类的责任。在德国人看来，职业教育同样能够培育精英，这一点值得我们学习，精英是合格的工人，他们也同样能够做出许多创造性的**。他们为行业及社会做出了卓越贡献。

[Y] You served as the minister’s counselor in Germany as the representative of Ministry of Education for years. What kind of things we could learn or inspiration we can draw from the German way of education in terms of elites?

杨锐：您曾多年担任中国驻德国大使馆教育处公使衔参赞。那么我们从德国的精英教育中可以学到些什么，或者能够得到哪些启示呢?

[J] Elites are not those people who have lots of money, who have been educated, who have done excellent research or who have very outstanding social position or power. Elites, in my understanding, are those people who take more responsibility, not only for our own country, but also for the human beings, for the mankind. If we can learn something from Germany, for example, even in the field of vocational training, they are also elites. They are workers, qualified workers. And they do a lot of innovative work. And they make a great contribution to the development of industry and of the society.

姜锋：所谓精英，并非仅仅指那些拥有财富、受过教育、有出色研究成果，或拥有杰出社会地位和权力的人。在我看来，精英是那些勇于和能够肩负责任的人，不仅是自己国家的责任，还有全人类的责任。在德国人看来，职业教育同样能够培育精英，这一点值得我们学习，精英是合格的工人，他们也同样能够做出许多创造性的**。他们为行业及社会做出了卓越贡献。

[Y] Now many of our graduates from the Shanghai International Studies University choose to go abroad for further academic study. Walter Lippmann, the most famous columnist in the United States in the wake of the Cold War, said those who studied in Europe (He was talking about the Communist Leadership), those core members of the first generation of the Communist Leadership who went to Europe and studied there would definitely change the future of China. He made the remark in the Cold War. Deng Xiaoping, of course, played a pivotal role in engineering the process of modernization. Do you think something similar is likely to happen with more brilliant students coming back?

杨锐：现在，许多上外毕业生都选择出国继续学业。美国冷战时期最著名的专栏作家沃尔特·李普曼曾说过，那些在欧洲学习过的人，他指的是共产党的领导层，那些赴欧留学的中共**代领导核心成员必将改变中国的未来。他是在冷战时期发表这一言论。当然，邓小平在中国现代化进程中扮演了至关重要的作用。您是否认为越来越多的优秀留学生归国后会带来相似的影响?

[J] The young Chinese return to China. They have changed the country in the way that the country is more stronger, more independent, and I would like also to say, more free. And so they have changed it. And they will change the country further, I think. They have learned a lot of advanced technology and also advanced management experience and even also other experience. And they bring that back. And they are very much rooted in the reality of China. And they combine these different elements. I think in this way, they will make a great contribution to have a better future even for the country and for themselves.

姜锋：年轻的中国学子回国后，已经改变了中国，他们将中国变得更强大、更自主、更自由，我愿意这样说。所以他们已经改变了中国。而我认为，他们还会更进一步改变这个国家。他们学到了许多先进的技术、先进的管理经验以及其他经验，并将它们带回中国，扎根于中国的现实，将这些不同的要素结合起来。我认为，他们由此将为这个国家以及自己的美好前程做出贡献。

【访谈双语摘译(二)】

杨锐 [Y] & 上外学生代表 [S]

[Y] I started my student years in the Shanghai International Studies University in the early 1980s when most of us were required to make contributions to the country. In the words of J.F.K., John Kennedy, "don't ask what the country can do for you, but ask what you can do for the country". It means we're ready to work for the country the first place but today, today younger people may no longer think so and thinks not in this way. Do you believe, as party members you are different. I mean you're different from, those are characterized by such words like selfish, aggressive and individualistic. Are there any differences, between those who studied in this university in the 80s and those in the 21 century?

杨锐：我于80年代初就读上外。当时讲的是为国奉献，借用肯尼迪的一句话：“不要问国家可以为你做什么，而要问你能为国家做些什么?”也就是说，我们把为国家**放在首位，随时准备好为国奉献。但今天的年轻人可能想法不同。你们是不是觉得身为党员你们不一样，和那些被贴上，比如自私、咄咄逼人、个人主义之类标签的年轻人不太一样?80年代的上外学子和现在21世纪的同学间有没有什么不同之处?

[S] I'd like to say that the post-90 generations are, like us, we are more aggressive, maybe but i don't think it's not, it’s a bad word, because I think being aggressive can drive us to progress to make some progress on. Just to remember that as the moment, the New Culture Movement happened on 1919 May 4th, and the new generation they could also be viewed as hopeless maybe, but it was the generation that changed our country.

黄�h：我觉得90后，像我们这一代人，确实更加有进取心，但是我不觉得这是一个贬义词，我觉得有进取心可以让我们做出成绩。要知道1919年5月4号这天五四革命、新文化运动爆发的那个时候，当时的新一代年轻人，也可能被人认为是无可救药了，但恰恰正是这一代年轻人改变了我们的国家。

[S] I think that one thing never changed is that the students in this university always do the work to contribute to our own country, but now in a different way. I have a quite good example actually. We are running a Facebook account. It is called "China Youth". We want to express to the world what really China and the young people in China is and what we are interested in. We started this account in April and now we have the likes from 37 or 38 countries. The account does not been so political, but we also discuss political issues but we show them what real China is.

邱弼君：我想有一点从未改变，上外的学生一直在为国奉献，只是方式不同。我有一个很好的例子。我们正在运营一个脸书账号，叫“中国青年”(China Youth)，主要是向世界展现中国年轻人到底是怎么样的，我们对什么感兴趣?账号粉丝很多，4月开始运营至今已经有37、38个国家的年轻人订阅。当然这个账号并非为政治目的，但我们也讨论政治事务，我们向他们展现真正的中国是什么样的。

[S] I think our generation is more free, take more freedom in expression. We talk about the politics, we talk about everything with foreign people. But what we want to show to the world is a more comprehensive, a more objective imaging of what we're thinking about our nation and our generation. So, we're more free to talk with them and to communicate in those thoughts. ... I think, it's a common characteristic of my generation that we are more receptive to different comments, or criticisms even, and we can be more critical in think about what others think about Chinese.

贾诗慧：我想我们这一代人更加自由开放，表达也更加自由。我们愿意讨论政治，和外国人无所不谈。我们希望能让世界对我们这代人和我们的国家有更客观全面的印象，所以我们更愿意和他们沟通，交流观点。我想我们这代人普遍更愿意接受不同观点，甚至是批评。我们对外人如何评价中国也更能批判性思考。

[Y] We all have our own version about China Dream, but previously, those who follow the advocacy for having a China Dream from outside China say hey your top leader was talking about the dream of the nation, but then increasingly young people say, now what we call the China Dream is actually the dream of individuals, not the dream of the whole nation, very quickly can you brief our viewers of your version of China Dream for you personally?

杨锐：对中国梦大家都有自己想法。但此前国外有评论认为高层虽然说中国梦是国家梦，但越来越多的年轻人认为中国梦是个人梦。能不能快速表达一下你们对中国梦的理解?

[S] I think China Dream is consisted by all different dreams of the people. If we go to the factory and we ask a worker what is your Chinese dream, He will find that it is very far from his life actually. Maybe he just has a dream that he can get his salary on time and he can. Make a better life for his family. But actually each of these simple dreams consists of, the dream of our country. I think this is just like a power to push our country to develop.

张艺馨：我觉得中国梦是由许多不同人的不同梦想组成的。或许去工厂问问工人，他会觉得中国梦离他很遥远。他的梦想可能只是按时领到工资，让家人过得更好。但就是这些简简单单的梦想构成了我们国家的梦想，也正是这些推动着国家的发展。

[S] Chinese dream consists of individual dreams, and if I say I want to make this country stronger. This idea is too hollow. So as for now, my Chinese dream is to be qualified student to be a qualified daughter to my family and be a qualified citizen.

刘蕾：中国梦是由个人梦想组成的，如果我说我想让国家更强大，听起来过于空洞了。就目前而言，我的中国梦就是做个合格的学生，在家里做个合格的女儿，做个合格的公民。

[S] I think when we talking about Chinese Dream, it is certainly has something with China that means the national level. You know from the historical perspective, China, in the past one hundred years, has experienced sad and bloody stories. So I think, when we talk about Chinese Dream, I think this country needs to re-establish its own position in the international society. This is the first level. And the second level is about Chinese people. I think the Chinese Dream belongs to every Chinese citizen, so that they can realize their own dreams.

徐湾：我想中国梦必然是要和中国有关，必须是国家层面上的。过去百年间中国经历了不堪的历史，血腥的历史，所以中国梦首先要让中国重新在国际社会中获得地位，二来是中国人民的梦想。所以中国梦能让每个中国公民都实现自己的梦想。